Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

So Tien shinhan said in Resurrection 'F' manga, movie & anime adaptations that he didn't brought Yamcha nor Chaouzu along with him to the battle with Frieza since it "seemed too dangerous for them" to fight Frieza's goons, or was it not?

  

  

Hello there, My Name is Niv Lugassi. And I'm here to discuss whether or not there was a place for putting Yamcha & Chaozu on the Resurrection 'F' movie & later Dragon Ball Super saga adaptation of this epoch.

  

We should first point out that even Frieza had noted that those soldiers Sorbet had brought with them as part of the 1000 men army were WEAKER than the ones Frieza had prior his invasion to Namek in Age 762 where his empire declined. As we remember from the Namek Saga the common Frieza soldier of the low level ranks had a power level beneath 1500 which as seen with the fear Banan & Sūi, a.k.a. "Zarbon's Scouts", showed while reading Krillin & 5 year old Gohan's power level (with weighted clothes) upon reaching Planet Namek in Dragon Ball Z. It was also stated that the low level Friza goons are indeed "under 1500" in Dizanshuu 7. Even the common Namekians who had a power level of 3000 each didn't had to go all out to take out these lackies Frieza brought with him to Namek, and who were stronger than the ones present on Earth 17 years later.

So EVEN if the promotional "Volume 'F'" guidebook is right and the best of these 1000 men army were indeed mercenaries especially hired by Sorbet for Frieza's 2nd invasion to Earth who are capable of proving "troublesome" for the heavily suppressed (to buy time for Goku & Vegeta to return to Earth from Beerus' Planet) human Z-Fighters present at Friza's revenge in Age 779, I don't see any chance they could have risked either Yamcha nor Chiaotzu.

Let's place these frieza combatants in an imaginary fact based battle powers scale, I'd say that 70% of them were around 1000 each as even Jaco the Galactic Patrolman who is weaker than Raditz was able to take their weakest out with ease, 28% will be at the area of 3000 and that the few mercenaries (27 in total in both the movie and in the manga version by Toyotarō, trust me, I've counted them) = 2% of the entire Frieza force, I'd put between 10,000 - 30,000 cuz the Ginyu Force were still grasped as something far beyond these lackies (including Shisami & allegedly Tagoma who was hiding his true strength) to surpass.

Now, taking in mind the fact that Yamcha could take out Recoome (whose power level is at least 40,000), AND 5 years later in Age 767 he will survive a fight against Cell Jr. even if suppressed (still over a good ammount of millions, at minimum) & will even join powers with Tien to save worn out SSJ Goku from a Cell Jr. who was targeting him, Yamcha later joins his might with the other Z-Fighters to injure Super Perfect Cell while Super Sayian 2 Gohan was in the midst of a Kamehameha waves mayhem with him. Sometime after the Cell Games, Yamcha fought against Bido & Zangya & was not killed after a violent encounter with Bojack's Space Pirates in the 9th DBZ Movie. In Age 774 Yamcha was shown able of easily taking out BOTH Olibu (who've fought on par with Paikuhan 7 years earlier) & another winged gorilla fighter with simple chops, he also managed to give Krillin a toe to toe sparring battle and later when Kid Buu arrives to the Grand Kai's Planet looking after Goku & Vegeta who reached to the Supreme Kais' World, Yamcha & Krillin are the last dead elite fighters to stand up on their feet vs. the crazed/mentally unstabled evil majin. All these shows Yamcha's power level was enough to survive a battle with those pathetic lame aliens who subject themselves to Frieza. Not to mention he was the only Z-Fighter who managed to shake the God of Destruction Beerus with a friendly chop. JK.

 

Chiaotzu's case also speak for himself, he was capable of putting a fight to Guldo who had a power level that ranges from 11,500 to 19,000 in the Frieza Saga, then was cutted from the front lines to make room for Future Trunks & because the editors didn't saw him as much of a fighter who would stand up with where DBZ was going due to his cuteness. In the Fusion Saga however we learn that Chiaotzu and Tien were both strong enough to avoid & survive the Human Extinction attack Super Buu had launched upon Earth from Kami's Lookout which terminated almost all living things there.  In the Monaka Saga or Potaufeu Saga Chiaotzu possesses enough psychic strength to hold on place both relived Sayian Beyond God Goku & Monaka, Goku had to struggle to move before tapping into his true power who easily broke out Chiaotzu's mind trick for body bind.

OVERALL CONCLUSION: IF MASTER ROSHI WHOSE POWERLEVEL IS RIDICULOUSLY LOWER THAN BOTH THESE FIGHTERS ALONE, I'd put him at 10,000 at best with his buffed form, WAS ABLE TO FIGHT AGAINST THE FRIEZA ARMY SO DOES THESE TWO. TOEI GETS A BAD NOTE FROM ME FOR THIS POOR WRITING & LACK OF IMAGINATION. Their usage of characters WAS VERY NARROW (Majin Buu could do more than being asleep) & IT SEEMS LIKE THE STAFF WAS LACKING the understanding OF the chain of events prior to this movie/arc, LIKE THEY WERE NOT EVEN CONTROLLING THE MATERIALS IN THE LEVEL FANS DO. SERIOUSLY TORYIAMA & TOEI, YOU HAD ONE JOB.

UPDATE: In the Hebrew Dub of episode 21 that aired last thursday (29/9/2016) in Israel's Nickelodeon, Tien says to Gohan & Piccolo: "Sorry that I didn't brought Chiaotzu with me" in a re-evaluating tone after the scene when the Frieza soldiers are flying around. However it's important to note that Chiaotzu's voice actor is the dubbing director for this show.

The Hebrew Golan

LOL syria's starting to feel like vlad the impaler after a certain vlad had helped them out in their domestic mayhem, now thinking they can annex Israel's Golan Heights describing it as "a conquered arab land". 2 points should be putted on the table: 1) BESIDES the wasteland called the arabian peninsula arabs are NOT entitled to any land. 2) Jewish Presence in the Golan Heights is since the Hellenistic Era in which no "syrian" entity existed (arab syria is a result of arbitrary 1920 french & british decision of drawing borders between their colonies in the Near East) as the Synagogues, Jewish Artifacts & arabized Hebrew settlements' name suggest.


Gamla, the Jewish stronghold in the Golan against the romans.



Menorah shaped relief in Um al-Kanter Synagogue, yet, another "sign of arab muslims' eternal sovereignity over the Golan Heights"... NOPE.


Katzrin's Synagogue. Yep, in the Golan.


Sussita (Hippos) in an arieal view from 2015. A pagan city which had a Jewish minority as RECORDED by roman era historians, in the Golan.


The Hamat Gader Synagogue's Mosaic, is this Ancient place of worship an "arabic praying place", syrian govt.? Nope, 1000% Jewish.

The suraman's (a small circassian village established in 1878) mosque which contained this flower decoration which is common in Mishnaic & Talmudic Synagogues, probably was taken from a near by Ancient Jewish village ruins.


Deir Aziz Synagogue, another Talmudic era Jewish town: Aziz as was preserved on an ancient stone placed in the entrance to the worship place.


Map showing King Herod's Kingdom, it was named Judea, inhabited by Jews who called themselves Israel in their religious acts, and contained parts of what's today southern syria, southern lebanon & transjordan.

Just some power levels scaling:
*syria: can't handle a few guys w pickup trucks & stolen basic weapons since 2011 even w hezbollah & iran's help (sans russia).
*Israel: IT'S OVER 9000!!!!1

Purim of 2016 is here !!!

So I have recently started to re-examining the HUGE POWER BOOST Tagoma got in Dragon Ball Super - which makes no sense when you try to put it in numerical ammount, the guy went straight from being on par with Zarbon & Dodoria (23,000 - ~30,000 & 22,000 respectively) to the point he can EASILY decimate Piccolo (who is fused with Nail and Kami and have kept on his trainings in the 7 years past the Cell Games and is considered to be the STRONGEST Z-Fighter sans the Sayians & their half-breed sons) and take on a mild ki blast from Gohan (who even though slacked his training should be considerably strong around the 7th Universe due to the ULTIMATE potential unlock he recieved from the Old Kaioshin just 5 years prior that) with no sign of scratch upon him. ALL THAT IN 4 MONTHS OF "TRAINING" (being Frieza's pounching bag 24/7 is not really contributing to either side in terms of powering up unless the Zenkai boost he got, IN CASE HE GOT SUCH like the Sayians, from healing each beating was in a vast degree fast enough to make him a worthy opponent to first form Frieza whose power rose drastically on a daily basis in this short period).




Out of shape 22 years old Son Gohan even considered him to possess a power "equal to his own at his best" - reffering to his base form - after he almost got killed by Tagoma's sneaky attack on him & Shisami (who got killed with much ease). Prior that, Tagoma was basically a "nobody" amongst Frieza's Galactic Empire, with Elites like Zarbon & Dodoria who had the same tier of power as he hanged alongside the ruthless tyrant as "Generals/Advisors" while he was serving as Sorbet's bodygaurd in the remoted 3rd Stellar Region where Frieza never showed too much interest (as he never contacted them BESIDES a few times Sorbet met him as the Staff Officer of that region). His importance within the pre-Namek Saga Frieza Army was shown in his memory of the only time he saw Frieza (prior his resurrection), standing with his back towards him discussing with Captain Ginyu & Dodoria, while he walked alone away from the "big men" in one of Frieza's planets.




I saw alot of bluffings around the web about his new power level being equated to Super Buu (including his Gohan, Gotenks & Piccolo absorbed forms) or even beyond that, so I had to jump in to the discussion and point out Tagoma COULD NOT BE THAT STRONG. He was only able of taking out Piccolo due to the fact all Z-Fighters dropped their serious trainings and acustomed to the peaceful life style in the five years post Kid Buu's death. The hit he got to the crouch from out-of-shape Gotenks demonstrated it the best.

Super Buu > Tagoma (DBS' RoF), Niv Lugassi 23/03/2016. Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Mt. Scopus.

Super Buu > Tagoma (DBS' RoF) [Colored Version], Niv Lugassi 24/03/2016. Givat Shapira, Jerusalem.

If you're asking me, Tagoma could be at the ranges between Semi-Perfect Cell to Super Perfect Cell at most, but nowhere around Majin Buu's level. Yes, even the fat Buu is beyond him. I'd say that even Dabura might be proving himself a bit too much for the newly improved Tagoma to handle. I'll even say that from my point of view the "new" improved Frieza in his first form is STILL WEAKER than Super Buu in his base form, yes the Majin can still take the "Frost Demon" out without any of his absorbed forms, yet are equal in strengh when Frieza takes on his true/original/fourth/final form (again: I'm refering to Super Buu without any of the Z-Fighters absorbed).




The only reason he could injure Gohan so severlly was due to the fact he was distracted by handling (or at least starting to deal with) the weakling Shisami and was caught off-gaurd (the Dragon Ball Executives have tend to use this excuse occasionally since Battle of Gods). Shisami is indeed inferior to Piccolo in strengh, if you examine their Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection 'F' movie battle you can see Piccolo was exhausted from fighting 170 Frieza Soldiers before Shisami pops into the battle field, and was clearly holding him on his (tired) own before Gohan decided there's no need of taking a risk with him. I'd take Volume 'F' claims of Shisami was able of taking Piccolo down due to having bigger power ("being superior in strengh") than the Super Namek in serious disbelief. Even if he was the original Frieza's punching bag for four months.




The fact Sorbet was amazed Tagoma surpassed the entire Ginyu Force while checking him up on his Scouter while prepering to fight the Z-Fighters means Shisami didn't/couldn't surpass them even after his 4 months of training prior the invasion to Earth.

Just as the 5 Z-Fighters prepare to take on the trashtalking Tagoma head on, probably believing they would win with joined might, SSJ Gotenks appears and headbutt him in the crouch, causing him to go from a flameboyant/taunting badass to a complete loser almost crying while reeling on the ground.

I'd say Ginyu in Tagoma's body, with the further power boost he went through (due to being naturally better fighter/more skilled energy manipulator than Tagoma), is at the same tier as Majin Buu when he first appeared out of his cacoon.



Considering Ginyu's superiority in strengh in comparison to Tagoma, his quick attack after powering up wasn't enough to kill any of the 5 Z-Fighters: Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin, Tien & Master Roshi, despite the last two were injured enough for Gohan to tell them to stay aside and rest after they'll use a Senzu Bean to heal themselves while he will take Ginyu head on. Ginyu-Tagoma is stronger considerablly than base form Gohan who got out of shape due to spending his time over his academic carear other than training but is NO MATCH for the Super Sayian form of Goku's eldest son, who EASILY takes him out in 2 blows before sparring him and ask him to leave the Earth if he knows what's good for him. This act of kindness angers Frieza who decided to step in and kill Gohan instead of Captain Ginyu, as Ginyu in Tagoma's body holds off Piccolo & Krillin who wanted to aid Gohan against the evil tyrant.




Sayian Beyond "god" Vegeta is not so nice as Gohan and right after teleporting back to Earth and realizing Ginyu is back and looks for revenge at him and Son Goku for trapping him in the body of a Namekian Frog for 17 years, the Saiyan prince swiftly moves towards him and blasts him away with an energy wave, allegedly killing him (according to Goku). TBH I really hope that Toei will know how to use a character with a depth like Ginyu and to make an excuse how he didn't truely died despite being seriously injured by this ki wave.

These are the HYPOTHETICAL power levels I'd give to all the listed above:

Fusion Saga & Kid Buu Saga - Age 774:

• Dabura: 950,000,000 (said to be on Super Perfect Cell's tier, but by DBZ logic of plot running he'd be bit stronger)
• Trunks: 380,000
• Goten: 350,000
• Gotenks (fat): 950,000
• Gotenks (thin/old): 670,000
• Gotenks (Base Form): 18,000,000
• Majin Buu (calm & heavily holds back against Gotenks): 380,000,000
• Majin Buu's rage over Bee & Satan's injuries (true power of this form including the evil part): 2,000,000,000
• Fat/Good Buu: 1,000,000,000
• Thin/Evil Buu: 1,100,000,000
• Master Roshi: 150 (I assume he did got a little stronger over the years from his 139 rate)
• Krillin: 275,000,000
• Android #18: 450,000,000
• Yamcha: 6,000,000
• Super Buu (Base Form): 2,100,000,000
• Super Buu's Human Extinction Attack: 2,400,000,000
• Tien: 250,000,000
• Chiaotzu: 5,000,000
• Trunks (post Room of Spirit & Time training): 450,000 (based on the fact they were only on 1st Form Frieza tier 2 years later in the 2008 OVA)
• Goten (post training): 400,000
• Gotenks (Base Form post training): 25,000,000
• Gotenks (Super Sayian): 1,250,000,000
• Super Buu's dimensional opening scream: 2,600,000,000 {a burst of a moment}
• Gotenks (Super Saiyan 3): 2,150,000,000
• Piccolo: 600,000,000
• SSJ 3 Gotenks & Piccolo's dimenosional opening scream: 2,750,000,000
• Super Buu after SSJ 3 Gotenks fight at Kami's Lookout's debris injured him: 2,300,000,000
• Gohan (base form before the Old Kaioshin's potential unlockment): 15,000,000
• Kibito: 540,000,000
• Kaioshin: 800,000,000
• Old Kaioshin: 13,000,000
• Ultimate/Mystic Gohan: 2,500,000,000
• Kibito-Kai (demonstration of Potara fusion): 1,340,000,000
• Super Buu (Gotenks & Piccolo absorbed): 4,700,000,000
• Mystic Gohan heavily injured: 1,800,000,000
• Tien's Tri-Beam to save Gohan: 1,500,000,000
• Ultimate Gohan after Dende heals him: 2,800,000,000
• Goku (revived using a Destrecto Disc): 300,000,000
• Tien (dying from Super Buu's legs kick): ~3
• Tien after Dende heals him: 250,000,000
• Super Buu (Piccolo, Goten &  Trunks absorbed): 2,700,000,000
• Super Buu (Gohan, Piccolo, Goten & Trunks absorbed): 5,200,000,000
• Goku (base): 40,000,000
• Vegeta (base): 35,000,000
• Super Sayian Goku: 2,000,000,000
• Super Sayian Vegeta: 1,750,000,000
• Vegetto: 6,500,000,000
• Super Buu transforms into Kid Buu (after all absrobed were released): 5,300,000,000
• Kid Buu: 5,500,000,000
• Krillin (on the Grand Kai's planet): 300,000,000
• Yamcha (on the Grand Kai's planet): 240,000,000
• Super Sayian 2 Goku (on the Kaioshin's planet): 3,000,000,000
• Super Sayian 2 Vegeta (on the Kaioshin's planet): 2,750,000,000
• Super Sayian 3 Goku: 5,000,000,000
• Guldo in hell: 135,000
• Recoome in hell: 400,000
• Burter in hell: 450,000
• Jeice in hell: 500,000
• Frieza in hell: 180,000,000
• Goku's Final Spirit Bomb: 6,000,000,000

Frieza's Resurrection - Age 779:

• Tagoma (upon Frieza's revival): 22,500
• Shisami (upon Frieza's revival): 21,500
• Sorbet (upon Frieza's revival): 84,000
• Frieza (1st form regenerated - "a bit rusty"): 490,000
• Gohan (slacked training): 25,000,000
• Piccolo (out of shape): 450,000,000
• Krillin (out of shape): 125,000,000
• Android 18 (out of shape): 400,000,000
• Tien (out of shape): 100,000,000
• Chiaotzu (out of shape, Fukkatsu No 'F' manga only): 2,000,000
• Master Roshi: 1,000
• Master Roshi (buffed): 10,000
• Jaco: 1,020
• Mr. Buu: 1,150,000,000
• 1000 Frieza soldiers Army: 1,000 (70% of total men) - 3,000 ("strongest"=30% of henchmen)
• Krillin (stunned by fear of Frieza - DBS ONLY): 2,000
• Krillin (reliefed after Tien saved him - DBS ONLY): 3,000
• Krillin fears Frieza's 16 men surrounding him in DBS: 2,100
• Frieza's pink bully soldier against Krillin: 3,000
• Krillin realizes Frieza's bully soldier is just a weakling in DBS: 6,000
• Krillin after Master Roshi explained him he's far stronger than Frieza's soldiers: 18,000 (DBS)
• Frieza's mercenaries (wearing new model battle armor in the RoF manga&movie): 5,000-10,000
• Krillin (supressed): 80,000
• Tien (supressed): 70,000
• Gohan (holds himself vs. Frieza's goons & Shisami): 170,000 -> 210,000
• Piccolo (supressed against the lackies & tired vs. Shisami in the movie): 240,000 -> 200,000
• Sorbet (post 4 months): 300,000
• Shisami (post training): 230,000 (less than the Ginyus' combined minimum of 268,500)
• Gohan starting to get serious vs. Shisami (threatens him to give up): 250,000
• Gohan powers up against Shisami: 450,000 (somehow kept his guard down)
• Tagoma's dirty blast: 500,000
• Shisami dying after Tagoma's sneak attack: 0.2 {also his power level after SSJ Gohan took him out with one blow in the film}
• Gohan realizes he got hit too: 1,000 and drops quickly
• Tagoma (holds back while standing to be scanned by Sorbet's scouter): 350,000
• Gohan after his heart stopped beating: 0.3 [barely holds on till Piccolo's Kiai]
• Gohan after Senzu Bean: 30,000,000
• Tagoma (full power post training/"Body of Steel"): 700,000,000 - 900,000,000 tier
• Goten: 500,000
• Trunks: 550,000
• Piccolo (powered up to max): 500,000,000
• Piccolo (injured by Tagoma): 300,000,000
• Gohan's rescue ki blast: 600,000,000
• Piccolo (post Tagoma's attack - barely holds his own): 1,500,000
• Piccolo (after Senzu): 550,000,000
• Gotenks (SSJ): 950,000,000
• Frog-Ginyu: 0.16
• Tagoma as a Namekian frog: 0.00004
• Ginyu in Tagoma's body (not accustomed): 800,000,000
• Ginyu-Tagoma attacks the Z-Fighters (post power up): 1,000,000,000
• Tien after Ginyu's assult: 15,000 [too brutal for him, barely holds on with the fight]
• Piccolo after Ginyu's attack: 1,000,000 [holds on, realizes Ginyu is stronger than Tagoma was]
• Master Roshi after Ginyu's attack: 700 [can't hold on, barely alive]
• Krillin after Ginyu's attack: 300,000 [takes less damage than the other humans]
• Gohan after Ginyu's attack: 1,100,000 [holds on, back to himself after breathing]
• Krillin after Senzu: 130,000,000
• Tien after Senzu: 120,000,000
• Kamesennin after Senzu: 1,500
• Master Roshi powers up to MAX to call Goku & Vegeta (RoF movie ONLY!): 100,000
• Gohan fighting Ginyu-Tagoma: 300,000,000 - 700,000,000 (taps into his "Mystic" form as he powers up w each pounch, yet due to his lack of training he can't unleash his full power)
• Ginyu in Tagoma's body (accustomed): 1,080,000,000
• Gohan (back on his feet injured after Ginyu's attacks on him): 25,000,000
• Gohan (Super Sayian): 1,250,000,000
• Frieza (1st form post his "special" training): 1,500,000,000
• Frieza's barrage of Death Beams: 1,750,000,000 -> 1,900,000,000
• SSJ Gohan injured by Frieza's barrage of Death Beams: 1,000,000,000 -> 700,000,000
• Injured Gohan reverted back to normal: 14,000,000 and dropps
• Frieza's most powerful death beam (hits & kills Piccolo): 2,000,000,000
• Gohan charging up to max to call Goku & Vegeta from Beerus' Planet: 3,000,000,000 [erruption of anger]
• Gohan's body collapses: all the way to ~1
• Goku (Sayian Beyond "god"): 2,500,000,000
• Vegeta (Sayian Beyond "god"): 2,450,000,000
• Gohan after a 2nd Senzu Bean: 50,000,000
• Frieza in his final form: 2,400,000,000
• Goku as a Super Sayian god Super Sayian: 7,500,000,000
• Golden Frieza: 7,600,000,000
• Golden Frieza (stamina begins to fall): 7,400,000,000
• Golden Frieza (stamina dropping fast before Sorbet steps in): 6,500,000,000
• Goku after Sorbet's bad ring laser caught him off-gaurd: 3,000,000,000 and dropping fast to 800,000,000 due to Frieza's torturing him
• Goku after Senzu: 2,800,000,000
• Golden Frieza vs Vegeta: 6,250,000,000
• Vegeta as a Super Sayian god Super Sayian: 7,300,000,000
• Frieza reverts back to his fourth form: 2,000,000,000 [powerless]
• Goku's conclusive Kamehameha: 8,000,000,000